ok, so i have often pondered .. (yeah i said "often pondered" so wut?) the answer to question 5. as far as vs. 20 goes, it seems to state that all men should know god as "the creator" since the time of creation, because his "invisible" qualities are "clearly seen".??? those qualities being: his eternal power, and divine nature. hmmmm seems like an oxymoron to me.
so a muslim, hindu, heathen, atheist, etc. really have no excuse for either denying his existence or not giving him due credit for his creation. yet many do in some form or another i guess. im pretty sure Muslims believe in god as their creator though i could be wrong and Hindus worship cows or something ... i really dont know. but the verse seems to say that none have any excuse to deny the power of god because the "invisible" writing is "clearly seen" on the wall.
so where my pondering comes in, is around undiscovered north and south America where we find the native people (i.e. Aztecs) worshipping many separate gods from the sun and moon god, to the god of corn etc. and it wasn't until Christianity was introduced to them by the early settlers or pillagers whatever u want to call them, that god came into their picture. had these savage, war hungry, human sacrifice to their gods, type people clearly seen but stubbornly ignored gods invisible qualities of eternal power and divine nature for a simple desire to serve more convenient gods that they could see or touch?
so all that rambling (and btw if any of u are cultural anthropology majors im sure i sound double idiotic) to ask this question:
how were the invisible qualities of eternal power and divine nature so clearly seen in plain to everyone that Paul (or god) would say that its totally inexcusable to believe anything else?
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My above blog doesn't even make sense to me when i read it here.
ReplyDeleteWhat i got from vs 20 is that before Christ, before the gospel, all the way back to the beginning of creation, the people walking around the planet were still able to plainly see Gods eternal power and divine nature. even to the point that there was no excuse not to believe.
So what comes to my mind is some uncharted part of South America, with a bunch of Aztec like people walking around the jungle and they say " yep, its very obvious that there is one creator, and that creator has eternal power and divine nature"..."but, multiple gods, drunken orgy's, and human sacrifices are much more fun. so we are gunna go that route instead."
So without profits, and testimony, and gospels ... what are the invisible signs of gods eternal power and divine nature that this verse is talking about?
It's a great pondering, Wes, and one that many people (myself included) have pondered. I think the verse simply states that one should look beyond themselves (finite beings) and beyond the creation (idols, etc.) to the invisible and divine in order to explain the amazing aspects of the universe. Man still needs revelation, and that's where God steps in to reveal Himself to us through the Word and His Son. But His basic qualities of "godness" can be and ought to be known by and through what is seen. More on Sunday. :)
ReplyDeleteBrennan and I JUST had a pretty awesome conversation about this with his close friend. Mind you his friend was not raised in a home where Christ was the center or topic of conversations. Therefore, I was getting questions like "what do you tell the person who "prays" to the "god" of whatever who's prayers are being answered by their "god"?"
ReplyDeleteI had to stop and stick to the basics. Every man has to figure out there own salvation. Some have the advantage of being raised in the faith with a greater understanding, and some are up in the air. Bare with me as I try to dissect this. So sorry if I go off on a tangent.
I believe the invisible attributes is our Lords creation (stars,ocean,mountains,humans-heart,mind,soul, etc.)
Looking up the word "attributes" it indicates the term as a noun and transitive verb:
1 : to explain by indicating a cause
2 a : to regard as a characteristic of a person or thing b : to reckon as made or originated in an indicated fashion.
I believe that they are without excuse to realize that something larger than life created these magnificent things. I PONDER about the ones who can't access the Holy Bible.
I also looked up Psalms 19:1-6 which was referenced next to the verse regarding God's eternal power and Godhead. These verses begin with the WORKS of the Lord (creation), and directly after indicate the Lords WORD. I'm not sure if I'm on the right track but I got that his divine nature is the affect the word has on man when he TRULY repents and obeys. A changed heart and life through His word I believe is part of His divine nature.
PHEW
After I read your original comment I imediately started thinking about Abraham and his walk with God. He was raised in an area where they were polytheistic and I don't remember his father being faithful, but he was evidently interested in something more and he chose to walk with God. I believe that the others that he lived around were more interested in what they could obtain or get out of this life rather then the purpose of this life.
ReplyDeleteAnyway all of that to say that Abraham became the father of the faithful because he recognized that there was something greater.
The funny thing is that I started reading chapter 4 and wow there is Abraham.
Go back to Genesis and read about his story,
Love your desire ans passion; keep it up
is Gods divine nature apparent "without" divine intervention?
ReplyDeleteYes, I believe so. When I look at the universe and contemplate its design and enormity, its beauty and its intricacies, I am compelled to believe that some divine being must have created all this. The divine intervention is necessary so that I know who the divine being is and how I can have a relationship with this divine being.
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